TOS - Stop killing realism servers

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• 01 May
  Annie

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  If people don't want restrictions, and they want to do whatever they want, they can find a server that allows it. As far as I'm aware, there are more low rules servers/no rules servers/deathmatch servers than there are realism servers.
  
  If people WANT those restrictions, they can play on a server that has them. If they don't? They can play on a server that doesn't have them.

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• 01 May
  Rljw

  It should not be up to community servers to hand-pick who they deprive legal consumer rights to, and those terms of service are published to protect us, the consumer.
  
  The concept that this information is "updated" is false. The server hosting agreement was last updated in 2022 (seen stamped in the header of the hosting agreement https://alderongames.com/legal/server-hosting-agreement).
  
  It is the responsibility of community server owners to read and understand the *long-standing* hosting agreements and TOS that they agree to by renting and publishing a server, and it is the right of consumers to flag and report servers that do not uphold those agreements.

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• 01 May
  Azulra

  I can confirm what @Rljw said- You can even check it for yourself because the last update to their server hosting agreement was on Jan 19, 2022 and, just to add to this, the last update to Alderon's general ToS(which is also the ToS for Path of Titans) was on July 23, 2022.
  
  So nothing has changed on Alderon's side meaning either A) it's changes that the individual server owners are doing on their own accord or B) the server(s) in question were doing something that was against the already existing ToS, but went under the radar until Alderon found out about it(likely through players reporting servers).

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• 01 May
  princessritzert

  Unfortunately realism servers should've set up their system to fit the current TOS before it got too far. I get limiting mutations because they're rare in realism, but it makes it almost impossible for people to use the skins they like. The rules they have in place are to prevent stuff like limiting skins and dinosaurs to specific people. -someone who couldnt use my BOUGHT skin in a realism server because they had it listed as piebald.

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• 01 May
  Jon

  Alderon should review the terms and make things more flexible. Things like servers selling mods makes sense, but limiting servers by creating restrictions on playing with Apex or mutations would be very bad in the long run because it would make community servers basically the same as each other.

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• 01 May
  garfielus

  these changes really strip the purpose of the game from me. when it came to immersion i was excited to unlock a playable or exclusively get a mutated skin on a realism, but now it has no functionality. i dont even see myself wanting to play the game anymore now that these animal based realism servers cant even limit it to be realistic. i think its ridiculous that its getting restricted when people dont pay or get exclusive rights to these things in these servers, its all fair and equal. so why is it wrong now?

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• 01 May
  Ezsu

  The type of TOS changes that the alderon Devs are currently making are affecting Realism comunity servers that previously have always ran that way.
  Such sets of rules is simply to help the player learn the proper way to play different dinos within a realism server BEFORE they jump in and imediatelly break them and cause chaos in a random server. (It's not like the playable is put behind a paywall...
  Even in beasts of bermuda this type of rulling is allowed!
  
  By not allowing Community servers to have their own rule set will drive the Realism community away from this game. They are a huge part of the player base as well.
  If one does not like the Rule set of one server they can play in different servers...thats why , I assume, The POT Devs even allowed community servers in the first place...

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• 01 May
  Fungal_Leech

  @Azulra the problem is that this is the first known time that this TOS thing has actually been enforced in non-p2p cases. Why are realism servers only a problem NOW, and not since 2022?

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• 01 May
  Dane

  While I understand the purpose of the update to the TOS, this seems rather unnecessary with the way it was implemented as it essentially affects all realism servers and likely several semi-realism servers as well.
  
  I could understand if it was something related to dinosaurs being locked by a literal paywall, however with how realism servers operate and moderate users in case of breaking said servers rules this forces server owners into a bad spot, as even though they can apply a "warning" or strike to a user they are unable to prevent players from just continuing to use certain dinosaurs, especially huge apexes who have a heavy impact on community servers, leading to even worse rule breaks or bad experiences for other players.
  
  This change feels and looks very targeted towards a huge part of Path of Titans community that value realism.

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• 01 May
  Anonymous

  Yes please allow the community servers to do this. As long as everyone has the right to roll for mutations or go through the process to play an apex be it waiting period or application this is so important. It should be up to the community servers how they run their servers as long as no pay wall is involved. Players can choose what server to play on and those saying we shouldn’t be allowed to do this are the exact people we most likely have these rules for that don’t care about actual realism and just want to do whatever they want which kills and ruins realism. There are many different types of community servers and players can easily find one that doesn’t restrict anything if that is what they want. Not all realism servers do this but it should be an option. Especially the right to roll for mutations as long as everyone is able to. Limiting how many playables are on a server should also be allowed. The health of the ecosystem system on realism dies with 50+ Utahs on one server .-.

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• 01 May
  PeachMelon

  It is not that the information is "updated" its that now it's being enforced. Alderon never had an issue with restricting things in community servers until they were made aware of it. Community servers are meant to be run by the community. If you join a server, and they have their own rules regarding what is and isn't allowed especially considering realism, nobody should rightfully have a problem with it, and should go play elsewhere.
  
  You are agreeing to joining a server with set rules, and should be expected to follow those rules without throwing a fit about what is and isn't allowed. The limitations put on a lot of these servers have so far hurt nobody. The people reporting it are angry that they cant play Rex or TT, because its the only playable they'll ever put their hands on, and wont consider touching anything else with a 10 mile pole.
  
  Community servers should continue to be run by the community. Not by Alderon's hard rules inevitably making ever server the exact same to play.

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• 01 May
  Berry

  As a server owner myself . I can totally understand not selling mods or even including special items to certain folks, but egg count and mutations should be up to the community servers because that’s what makes realism servers different from one another. Think about it , even irl a lot of animals don’t lay eggs or gar babies during certain seasons so you’re taking a realistic aspect from realism servers. Another thing people have the right to CHOOSE if they join a server or not therefore for example if they don’t like how a server works mutation wise can find a server that is to their liking because there are sooo many ! These rules are going to KILL realism servers…

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• 01 May
  Copper

  I agree with what this suggests, while I'm unsure of when it was added to TOS, I only knew recently, it feels unfair to restrict realism in such a way when people are actively seeking these type of servers. I as a realism player for nearly 4 almost 5 years now can say I love realism so much, its become a escape game on of those games you play to relax after a long day. While I do also enjoy deathmatchs and pvp I've always perfered more story based games which realism server allow for in Path of Titans. I don’t think its a weakness nor bad thing to restrict it in certain ways by having realistic tendencies, like nesting limits during colder seasons, adding seasons, limiting the chance of getting a mutation via luck which is so fun to me and many others I know. While realism isn't everyones cup of tea, it is for alot of people a comfort spot, a relaxing thing at the end of the day, a community where people come together for something they love. Please the keep realism experience alive ❤️

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• 01 May
  Day

  Community servers are optional for players. If they wish to seek an experience where they can grow an apex dino and put on an expensive skin, official servers are always available to them. Community servers operate with the purpose of providing a different experience than officials. I really hope Alderon considers allowing more flexibility to community servers with this in mind. Nothing, of course, should be kept behind real currency, but community servers and realism servers, especially, should be able to manage certain aspects, such as species populations or rate of mutations. There is such a large community around realism gameplay, and I do fear that it will vanish if Alderon continues to be stricter with the TOS.

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• 01 May
  ML97

  I think the point being missed here is the types of comments servers this effects. It does not effect pvp based servers or no rules serves. This effects Realism. People play realism to escape the chaos and to be able to play the survival aspect of the game. Realistically, mutations such as albinism or Dwarfism, are rarities. That is why the rolling bots are in place. For a realistic experience, it keeps mutations rare And makes sure ther servers are not overrun with them. This protects the immersion and help the players enjoy their experience. Obviously people who don't want rules or don't want to play realism, do not have to! These are things that help keep a realism server immersive and controlled.
  
  And to bring up the other point - if it has been a thing since 2022 - why wait until now to address it? Many of these servers have been around for years and now their whole dynamic is in upheaval. These are things that should have been addressed before these communities got established.

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• 01 May
  bambi

  Although there was no official ToS change, this is not a case of things being things that our servers have changed that go against the rules.
  
  Things that were previously approved by Alderon for community server usage have now been reversed and are considered a violation of ToS.
  
  Community servers are OPTIONAL! You do not have to play on our servers. All the features you, as a consumer, want, are available to you. There is no reason for you to come into a space that uses tools to craft a different environment and demand that they accommodate you.
  
  I'd also like to add that the Terms of Service are extremely broad and vague. This is what has allowed Alderon to go back on features that they previously approved without making actual changes. Things should not be left to interpretation.
  
  Otherwise, how do we know this won't change again in a month? A year?
  
  Community servers are a HUGE part of path of titans and are entirely optional to participate in. Very disappointed.

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• 01 May
  Haunted

  imagine being able to make your servers fun and unique only for the team to kill it.
  
  also if you're against servers limiting the apexes and mutation skins GUESS WHAT, DON'T PLAY IN THEM. it doesn't even affect you nor does it ruin the gameplay.

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• 01 May
  Vi

  Ill upvote. Realism servers are and always have been optional. Their rules have always been listed at the forefront when joining and players actively agree to the limitations when joining because that is how realism works. To rp as a creature, following a genetic code, following behavioral dimorphism, physical dimorphism, limitations and learning to immerse yourself into the world you're playing in that was created for you.
  
  The sudden backpedaling of rules, the new interpretations and sudden decision to say "actually this isnt okay anymore" after giving past acceptance to how these community servers function is uncalled for, frustrating and limiting for players who want to experience an immersive world where they don't have to worry about mixpacking, no rules, and no structure.
  
  As a realism owner, it completely baffles me as to why we cannot decide what we want to do in our servers when we pay hundreds monthly just to run a server let alone sometimes support 10k+ players at a time.

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• 01 May
  Kelskora

  Agree with Rljw on community servers should not pick and choose what the TOS means. However, this started by getting approval by Alderon only for it to change a couple years later because it was re-interpretted by the team viewing the report.
  
  No one has said the TOS itself changed.

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• 01 May
  PrincessImp_XX

  While I understand the worries about consumer rights, I also think that this level of micromanagement of community servers isn't okay either. Yes, we as users need this protection. I do agree that the TOS is good for protecting us from being forced to pay for certain skins, mutations etc.
  
  But what we are seeing happen right now is that community realism servers are taking a bit. Realism hinges on balancing certain populations for a healthy ecosystem, for the sake of maintaining a realistic environment. And the players who populate these server know that, and are all for it.
  
  My take on this is that players who enter Realism based servers agree to the terms of those servers as well. They know and agree to not being able to freely play apexes, or use mutation based skins freely.
  
  As long as they aren't being forced to pay for right to play certain species or use certain skins, I don't see a problem with servers having restrictions on playables and skins.

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• 01 May
  Mochi

  Realism servers get overrun with apexes and mutated dino's if there is not some kind of barrier. The barriers used never require real money, or even in game money to achieve, either a roll of dice, or a slot in a nest, so I don't understand how it's against the TOS

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• 02 May
  Ezsu

  The type of TOS changes that the alderon Devs are currently making are affecting Realism comunity servers that previously have always ran that way.
  Such sets of rules is simply to help the player learn the proper way to play different dinos within a realism server BEFORE they jump in and imediatelly break them and cause chaos in a random server. (It's not like the playable is put behind a paywall...
  Even in beasts of bermuda this type of rulling is allowed!
  
  By not allowing Community servers to have their own rule set will drive the Realism community away from this game. They are a huge part of the player base as well.
  If one does not like the Rule set of one server they can play in different servers...thats why , I assume, The POT Devs even allowed community servers in the first place...

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• 02 May
  Azulra

  I'm gonna put this on here now since a lot of y'all haven't been keeping up on the news, but Matt said that they had no choice with this stuff because Alderon Games got flagged for being in breach of console ToS. Specifically it was Nintendo flagging them(even though they're also in breach of Xbox's ToS as well) because of things such as requiring players to join external platforms such as Discord, restricting access to core game features without equal chances for everybody, etc. Matt confirmed that these rules were always there, but due to how vague the ToS was written and nobody asking them about it all the server owners just took the rules as they interpreted which, at the time, Alderon had no issues with. Matt did say that until the ToS is updated these servers can keep running as they were and once the new ToS is out they'll be giving time to adjust while also working on new features to try and make stuff more flexible with windows specifically for rules and such.

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• 04 May
  Rhiannon

  I don't see much difference between a server dictating that you must learn how to react to each type of dinosaur you might run into and whether having conditions to require before you are allowed a certain skin or playable. It's THEIR server. As long as they're not making people pay for access to in the game functions or being racist I see no reason to treat skin rules different from the novel's worth of behavior requirements these servers have. There are other servers that don't have these limits and most importantly official servers do not have these limits. Why are people trying to intrude on the way other people have fun just because it's irritating to them? It's a community owned server where a chunk of the community has agreed they want to play this way. As someone who does not like these servers myself, let them be stick in the muds with each other. There are other servers. People are willing to read all that stuff but not willing to check other servers for better rules?

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• 04 May
  Rhiannon

  The people acting like an in-game dress code is stomping on rights is kind of silly too. Just...yes. You CAN use that skin you payed for. Why do you HAVE to use it very specifically on this server this person payed for. Why does your money mean more then them? Who's holding a gun to your head and forcing you not to just pick a different server? Why does it have to be that server specifically? Why the heck would somebody go to realism which is notorious for rules and when encountering a rule that is a dealbreaker for them NOT just chose a different server?
  
  As long as OFFICAL servers don't pull this and there are in general options you're not having any rights trampled. You essentially entered someone's club that they rented and then got mad at the dresscode as though it meant you couldn't use that thing AT ALL.
  
  Why are the other rules not a stomping of rights hmm? What if I don't WANT to scream at giant predators because my species is in the rules as an alarm call for the herd?

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• 12 May
  ROTTMNTLover

  I saw another suggestion like this and someone had said in the comments that Nintendo is the reason they changed the ToS because Nintendo doesnt support discord. Ngl Nintendo sucks and PoT DOES NOT Belong on that platform at ALL, but Discord is also trash. And they shouldnt base their entire game on needing discord REGARDLESS. You get only a very specific, particularly toxic player base such as the one officials has right now when you base ur entire game off of needing discord. The devs can do better without it tbh, they have twitch, YouTube, X, and other social media including their OWN WIKI AND WEBSITE IF THEY WOULD JUST UPDATE IT. I think they underestimate how many of their players are actually just jobless kids…. It’s difficult to get jobs at entry level because of moronic laws such as the minimum wage, and weekends dont belong to movie nights with besties anymore. Everybody’s been ‘successfully’ long-distance since 2019.

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